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1 The truth, its time you all know. on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:49 am

Zaneff

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First topic message reminder :

Weed,

many of you think its bad, many of you think its unecessary.
crimes, laziness, "the gateway drug."
I teared up watching this documentary, conspiracies, lies.
Thats all we've ever heard in our lives.
i want each and every single one of you take take out 1 hour and 44 minuts of your lives to watch this documentary, you have the right to know the truth.
watch it all and be amazed. i garentee it will change your views.
im very passionate about this topic, and very political about the subject.
and i want you all to know why, to see the bigger picture.
for me, watch this.

http://thejimgaudet.com/legalize-it-watch-the-union-online/trackback/

And you know what its not just about weed, its about poverty, war, injustice, common sence, fear, freedom, and our rights.



Last edited by Zaneff on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total


26 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:15 pm

ToT@L


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All I have to say is...

Why would you want to take something that alters your state of mind? I got sick of weed because I wasted a lot of time doing nothing, and I didn't like not having a clear head.

Sure, some can argue it's a de-stresser and a medication, but in reality, you're just in denial of your responsibilities as a human being, and your job.

http://www.noobs.org

27 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:16 pm

TheRustySpoon

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T@D wrote:

Time for me to play the other side of the coin!!! Very Happy

Yes, weed is a drug but... so is nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine...... all of which are actually proven to be addictive and also have much more harmful, long term, effects then weed. Although there are some of the same chemical based carthigens in weed as tobacco...there has never been a "proven" direct connection comparing the effects of weed on the lungs and tobacco. In some types of cancer, weed actually slows the growth some studies have shown. (Breast cancer being the newest study).

As far as people smoking a joint before work..... bus drivers, teachers, civil servants, lifeguards... who ever. I'd rather them do that then drink alcohol..... which, although against almost all company policies, is completely legal. Weed reacts differently to everyone, for everyone.

For alcohol, the reason i did't mention it is that it became some what a norm to not drink in inappropriate places. But yeh for sure alcohol is much more harmful. As for nicotine in cigs and caffeine in like coffee and tea, well they do not or do not seem to affect people's productivity levels. Which is why i guess companies do not ban it, so yeh its about money money! As for the danger, im not sure about the danger levels of nicotine and caffeine, but after human manipulation, cigarettes are more harmful than tobacco. And legalizing weed, that would either be mass production, so stuff will be added to it just like to tobacco or people will grow it on their own, hard to control, hard to tax etc etc money lah.

But comparing weed to other drugs is somewhat of an useless activity. I mean if you go back in time, wouldn`t you stop the invention of cigarrettes/smoke or alcohol? I sure would (even though i would miss alcohol ) . So i see no reason to legalize weed and spread it among the population when most of the population (im assuming) does not do weed.

28 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:53 pm

Pornfish

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The problem with legalizing weed, is that you're validating an economy that has basically raped almost every country south of the U.S.. Validating criminal's life, and actually worsening the problem of drug traffick in the american continent. Imagine all the problems this would create for the people that live in countries where the whole economy of pot traffick has been fired up incredibly due to a whole new, legal, fresh, and gigantic market that opens up.

Sure, they'll be the legal grown pot, but how many people grow their vegetables? Or why would people pay big taxes when they could get the drug for cheaper in the black market? These are all issues that need to be taken in consideration.

Also, keep in mind you'll probably lose a whole generation of kids to the "novelty factor" of legal pot.


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29 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:13 am

T@D

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Lazarus McDeathsinger wrote:The problem with legalizing weed, is that you're validating an economy that has basically raped almost every country south of the U.S.. Validating criminal's life, and actually worsening the problem of drug traffick in the american continent. Imagine all the problems this would create for the people that live in countries where the whole economy of pot traffick has been fired up incredibly due to a whole new, legal, fresh, and gigantic market that opens up.

Sure, they'll be the legal grown pot, but how many people grow their vegetables? Or why would people pay big taxes when they could get the drug for cheaper in the black market? These are all issues that need to be taken in consideration.

Also, keep in mind you'll probably lose a whole generation of kids to the "novelty factor" of legal pot.

Eh... yes and no. Let's put it in more understandable terms. Im Irish. I love potatoes. Would I "prefer" potatoes from Ireland? Hell ya...... but I get them from Idaho..... brought to my local store. Why? More economical, less waiting times, no worry about the product not being cleared by boarder patrol... hundreds of different reasons but the main benefit..... convenience and price.

I want potatoes, I go to the store... there they are. If weed was legal, and was at the local store....... well, which would be cheaper. Stuff grown here legally or.... well, thats all you would have. Nothing brought over borders would be legal I would assume.. atleast at the start. Would it would cripple or destroy any other drug based countries business trade..... no. It would alter the product they produced. It's the basic laws of supply and demand. If theres no demand, you change what you supply.

If handled properly... weed could be legal in the US. They could make money of of taxes and profit enough to help fund things we need more in this country other then the "war on weed". But politicians are too old fashioned and close-minded to even take the time to try and make it work for us.

So once again... weed will never be legalized in the US.


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30 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:21 am

T@D

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Lazarus McDeathsinger wrote:
Sure, they'll be the legal grown pot, but how many people grow their vegetables? Or why would people pay big taxes when they could get the drug for cheaper in the black market? These are all issues that need to be taken in consideration. I disagree. I wouldn't by vegetables from Mexico when I know the vegetables I buy at my market are the same exact thing. And how would imports of any vegetation be cheaper as an import then domestic. I cant think of 1 thing thats "perishable" being food or vegetation that is imported here yet producible in the US... thats cheaper.
Also, keep in mind you'll probably lose a whole generation of kids to the "novelty factor" of legal pot. That I agree with.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

31 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:28 am

big*buck

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My American history teacher brought up a good point in lecture last year. This is probably the only thing i remember in that class.

Why does the government choose to let cigarettes stay legal even though they cause so much harm to a human body? Why not legalize weed in the united states and charge taxes and make more revenue to better roads and such? The answer is simple. Why would people pay outrages taxes to support their habbit, when all they have to do is grow it in their back yard? Unlike tobacco, which needs a moist, tropical environment, weed can grow just about anywhere. Therefore legalizing it in the United States would serve no benefit for the American government.

32 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:32 am

Vic

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Zaneff wrote:
And you know what its not just about weed, its about poverty, war, injustice, common sence, fear, freedom, and our rights.

this is none of my business seeing as im not a smoker

buh you say its not about the weed,

how do you think people end up poor when they have an addiction to drugs?

what does war have to do with marijuana literally?

What injustice? the injustice of them protecting you from your own health?

common sense is just said enough why would you smoke to ease your pain when your just inflicting more pain upon yourself by inhaling all the the smoke, causing lung cancer

the only fear i could think of from marijuana is peer pressure into taking the drug to seem cool but end up harming yourself

the only freedom you get from smoking marijuana legally is noone will care if you die or not

and your rights, people have rights to a certain extent where theyre rights are taken from them for proper reasons


in this case not having people dying from lung cancer, flooding up the hospitals from all these weed addicts who are having brain damage, breathing issues and heart failures

only reasons i heard marijuana is prescribed cause it can be used as an anti-depressent, or pain killers

but your just wanting it for the feeling you get after smoking it which is selfish and stupid of you for putting that shit within your body

but you cant stop people from smoking it, but dont put your crap about making it legal to infest everyone else with your bullshit

but like i said, im not a smoker, i dont know alot about marijuana but at a topic like this i juss want to let my opinions out

33 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:38 am

Pornfish

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Edit: @Tad's post:

No, but marihuana being the substance it is, will probably get high sales taxes like tobacco and alcohol. There isn't an example of a cheaper perishable simply because there is no underground potato market, or even the potential to set it up.

On marihuana's case, the underground market is already there, and they are in great advantage, in both distribution and production, when compared to the hypothetical legal companies that would deal with these kinds of product.



Last edited by Lazarus McDeathsinger on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total


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34 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:41 am

Pornfish

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big*buck wrote:My American history teacher brought up a good point in lecture last year. This is probably the only thing i remember in that class.

Why does the government choose to let cigarettes stay legal even though they cause so much harm to a human body? Why not legalize weed in the united states and charge taxes and make more revenue to better roads and such? The answer is simple. Why would people pay outrages taxes to support their habbit, when all they have to do is grow it in their back yard? Unlike tobacco, which needs a moist, tropical environment, weed can grow just about anywhere. Therefore legalizing it in the United States would serve no benefit for the American government.

Hey, you could brew your own beer or booze, grow your own potatoes and tomatoes, and all that for pennies on the dollar you would otherwise spend buying it. Fact of the matter, it's just more comfortable to get it from the convenience store down the street.


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35 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:43 am

big*buck

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Like i said... It would be nearly, if not fully, impossible to inforce a tax on weed, due to the fact that you can grow it ANYWHERE.

36 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:58 am

Pornfish

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Gah! I didn't see Tad's first post! Patience is a virtue folks. One at a time I shall answer.


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37 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:59 am

T@D

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Lazarus McDeathsinger wrote:Edit: @Tad's post:

No, but marihuana being the substance it is, will probably get high sales taxes like tobacco and alcohol. There isn't an example of a cheaper perishable simply because there is no underground potato market, or even the potential to set it up.

On marihuana's case, the underground market is already there, and they are in great advantage, in both distribution and production, when compared to the hypothetical legal companies that would deal with these kinds of product.

I still disagree. Yes, there is a black market for weed currently... but wouldn't you think that even just the shipping and handling of imported weed would cover if not exceed any tax levies that the US would impose? If making imported weed illegal, but allowing home grown, US produced weed legal..... I would tend to believe nothing SA could produce and get here would even compare price wise. Also, being grown here, regulations, if imposed properly, could actually increase how the drug is produced and packaged to better enhance the product overall. Basically... I would prefer to buy somehting I know was regulated and governed that something from an unknown place.

Beer is a good example price wise on what I mean. Domestic beer... cheap (brand name wise)... imports have typically HUGE price increases. Are they "better? Some may say by taste, but thats objective. Do they normally have a huget difference in potency? Nope. So why are they more expensive?

Because it costs more to get them here. No matter how you cut it... legally grown government controlled weed would end up being better, comparing apples to apples quality wise,... then anything that could be imported.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

38 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:05 am

Insekz

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I thought this would be one of othse;

"The truth, its time you all know."

"t@d is gay."

But it isn't. :-\

39 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:06 am

T@D

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big*buck wrote:Like i said... It would be nearly, if not fully, impossible to inforce a tax on weed, due to the fact that you can grow it ANYWHERE.

You can grow tobacco anywhere as well. The differance has nothing to do with where it grows it's a fact of volume. You can grow 1 weed plant that can easilly yeild 2 pounds of weed. Any pothead can tell ya, 2 pounds will last ya quite a while. And as far as quality... it's the growing process, yet simple.

Tobacco is completely different. I can promise you I can grow a tobacco plant in my house... if I could find some seeds. (harder to come by 1st off). The problem is... for me to get the same amount of cigarettes that will equally last me the same amount of time that 2 lbs of weed would last a pot head.... I would need WAY more then 1 plant. I would also need quite a few unobtainable machines for the processing of the tobacco. I would also need a chemistry set of chemicals that tobacco uses as additives. Weed essentially needs light, water, and soil to grow... tobacco... the same thing... but on a MUCH larger scale. And to come up with a completed, retail worthy, tobacco product..... good lord, that would cost more then it was worth.

I do completely agree with the tax issue as that was part of my 1st post.... But it's not an issue of being able to grow your own tobacco vs weed, it's the fact that doing so is impractical.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

40 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:13 am

Pornfish

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Well I agree with tad's first response, so that's that (Edit: by this, I meant 12 posts above me.)

On growing your own, yes, it may be easy, and yes it may be hard to tax it, but believe me, most people won't grow their own. There's a number of reasons for this.

For one, nobody would like to invite their mom over to their house-full of weed plants in the same way nobody likes to invite their mom over to their completely legal handcrafted dildo collection. There's a whole social stigma that you're taking in when you grow your own weed plants. Maybe it's legal, but you can't change the mindset that has been established for ages. You think an employer would hire regular weed smoker over a non-smoker just because it became legal?

Another point is that it is just far more convenient to buy your weed and stash it on your drawer than to grow your own.

Believe it or not, you can fermentate potatoes and make vodka for a small fraction of the price, and it's easier and less time consuming than you think. Yet, how many people do it? And how come the sales tax for vodka is relatively high?

So I'm beating around the bushes now, the fact is that weed won't be legalized because there's a hell of a lot more to look into than just "will it make it easier for little Jimmy to get his weed?", and thus, it won't be legalized anytime soon, as tad said.



Last edited by Lazarus McDeathsinger on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total


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41 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:15 am

Pornfish

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Stop being fast, you fast fuckers.


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42 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:22 am

beatles

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So far, I've pretty much agreed with Porny and Tad. All great posts.

http://www.pwpclan.org

43 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:35 am

T@D

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Lazarus McDeathsinger wrote:Well I agree with tad's first response, so that's that (Edit: by this, I meant 12 posts above me.)

On growing your own, yes, it may be easy, and yes it may be hard to tax it, but believe me, most people won't grow their own. There's a number of reasons for this. Correct, but like I said, if handled properly... USA grown weed will still be cheaper then black market foreign weed of the same quality.

For one, nobody would like to invite their mom over to their house-full of weed plants in the same way nobody likes to invite their mom over to their completely legal handcrafted dildo collection. There's a whole social stigma that you're taking in when you grow your own weed plants. Maybe it's legal, but you can't change the mindset that has been established for ages. You think an employer would hire regular weed smoker over a non-smoker just because it became legal? No offence, but an extremely flawed paragraph. First off, would you invite your parents over with a 6 pack of beer in the fridge? It's not like those who would grow pot would put it as their table setting center piece. And as far as comparing dildos to a pot plant.... well, knowing your infatuation to dildos... Ill let that go.

Another point is that it is just far more convenient to buy your weed and stash it on your drawer than to grow your own. Same thing I said... but I still say it would be cheaper if compaired to quality to buy it from the US government as opposed to buying on some dark road.

Believe it or not, you can fermentate potatoes and make vodka for a small fraction of the price, and it's easier and less time consuming than you think. Yet, how many people do it? And how come the sales tax for vodka is relatively high? To make a pot plant you need 4 things. Light, water, soil, and a seed.... thats it. To convert potatoes to vodka by using a still method is completely apples and oranges. Essentially... you can take a pot plant, in teh right climate.... put it in the ground and come back a few weeks later... and guess what, U gots weed. Trying to create alcohol is a completely different, and uncomparable venture. As far as the taxed... it's called the "sin tax" The government is taxing everything they can that they can "prove" is addictive or can have enought people stay onboard to use for research for other things that tehy can also tax. The "soda" tax is next. They will be taxing soda by volume in the very near future. That bill is on the table. If you dont believe me, look it up.

So I'm beating around the bushes now, the fact is that weed won't be legalized because there's a hell of a lot more to look into than just "will it make it easier for little Jimmy to get his weed?", and thus, it won't be legalized anytime soon, as tad said. Correct.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

44 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:54 am

Pornfish

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I would invite my parents over with beer on the fridge. I wouldn't with weed all over my garden, that's my point. There's the stigma that will prevent people from growing it up themselves over buying it. There's no social frown-upon about having beer, there is, however, about growing pot.


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45 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:57 am

T@D

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Currently, yes.... in some instances. I do believe however, anyone who would grow their own weed for personal use more-then-likely wouldn't be apart of the "timid, worried, embarrassed" people types you are referring to.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

46 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:43 am

big*buck

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If pot were legalized, it would be a matter of years before it was socially acceptable like beer is.

47 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:12 pm

eXcel


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T@D wrote:
Zaneff wrote:
weed is a gateway drug - biggest BS ive ever heard weed just cause i like to get high doesnt mean im going to start injecting my self with morphine and heroin?? WTF, its true dont get me wrong, majourity of people that move on to coke and heroin do, do weed first, but the fact is less then 3% of weed smokers go to harder drugs, and whys that? because this stupid prohibition catogorizes weed in the black market with all the other harder drugs, if people didnt have to get their weed from people who are also selling coke and heroin, why the fuck would they even move on to those drugs?? 100% of the people who smoke weed and move on to the harder drugs (witch is once again only 3% of people) was cause of the dealers they picked off of, asking them if they wanted something "better"

Where do you get your info? You are actually blaming the drug dealers that sell the weed for people using other drugs? You have GOT to be kidding me. And the "fact is".... what facts exactly? The "facts" from your partial documentry?

How about this.... "The Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University found adolescents who smoke pot 85 times more likely to use cocaine than their non–pot smoking peers. And 60 percent of youngsters who use marijuana before they turn 15 later go on to use cocaine" I this study I don't see any 3%..... but your says 3%. So who's right? Its objective. There is no study that can poll every person in the world. The fact of the matter is.... these studies show the results of the people who they studied..... not a consensus of the entire population.


This is what I find the most entertaining about this "movement". First off, it's not new. This has been going on since before some of your parents were even born. This will not ever be completely legalized..... ever. But the best part about it is this...

The people fighting it are typically ingnorant and selfish. Heres my proof.

The 1st "legalize it" modern movement was the fact that hemp is an extremely strong material and was more economical to make/use for ropes and other applications. Basically, the "potheads" were given hemp legally to use..... then they realized.... "shit, we cant smoke hemp, we need to push so its legal to smoke!. Gah, we were stoned when we came up with that idea."

Part 2. Weed for medical use. Many states in the US have authorized the medical use via a state medical card registration. The pot heads won!!!! They were elated!!!!!! Well, until they realized being out of pot wasnt a medical ailment. So they said "Well shit... we got it legal for all of the sick people, but we still cant smoke legally. Must-a been stoned when we came up with that idea as well."

Its simple. People pushing this movement could "typically" give 2 shits less aboput the guy dying who is allowed weed so suppress his
pain, or the elderly lady that needs weed to help with her cataracts. No, they were already granted that and now they are pushing for themselves. Noone gives 3 shits if their neighbor is allowed to smoke, or the guy down the road.... or even in another country. The "movement" is selfishly motivated be people who want their illegal activity eradicated so they wont go to jail for this "victim-less crime".

You wanna smoke weed in the streets, move to Amsterdam if it's that important to you
.

thats pretty much what i wanted to say lol

plus about alcohol/weed thing

u can clearly see a person when is drunk.. do u see it so clearly when someone's on weed?
and i think thats a big difference..

PS i stoped reading this topic after the first and a half page because posts were too long so maybe someone already said this.. :>

48 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:17 pm

benef1t.

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Well, the way i see it is that if a person wants to smoke weed and "die" as you say, then let them.... Same with cigarettes if they want to take the risk of gettin lung cancer let them the only difference is that cigs are legal and weed isn't. I myself smoke and know alooot of people who do i havent done much research, but ive never heard anyone dying of marijuana or getting lung cancer from it. at rusty, you get lung cancer from the chemicals they put in the cigarettes, marijuana will cause stress to your lungs because inhailing anything other than oxygen is potentially harmful to your lungs. I agree that the only reason that it is not legalized is because the government can not get control of it, to tax it etc. The truth is anything you do that is unnatural to your body can harm you, whatever it may be, and alcohol and tobacco are legal because the govt can control it, tax it, because not everyone is gonna take the time or effort to grow there own tobacco or brew there own beer, when they can just go to a store and buy the products that has already been produced, and yea if weed was legalized i believe quite a bit of people would buy it from the stores but with the taxes and such, there will still be people who will go undergound to get it cheaper/and or grow their own... So as i see it now weed will probably never be legalized, dont get me wrong i would love to see it legalized myself Smile


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49 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:39 pm

T@D

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Just to point out.... Oxygen is only 21% of teh air we breath. Extreme levels of oxygen can and will kill you.

So ...
benef1t. wrote: anything other than oxygen is potentially harmful to your lungs.
....
Is incorrect really.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

50 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:55 pm

benef1t.

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ahh true srry wasnt thinkin bout that Mad, but im about 99% sure my other statements are corrcet Smile


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51 Re: The truth, its time you all know. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:57 pm

benef1t.

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edit: i put wrong face meant to put :/ instead of Mad didnt know was gonna come out like that


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