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1 God or not. on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:56 pm

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First topic message reminder :

You can't find a better starting topic then to debate the existing of God... or it being one of the worlds largest lies. Cultures on every single land space believe in some sort of higher power.


What do you think?



Last edited by T@D on Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


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"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


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*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

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76 Re: God or not. on Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:17 pm

Virtuosity


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I think he assumed that because you sort of said you don't believe in anything lol Razz

EDIT: Well explain what parts Very Happy

77 Re: God or not. on Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:31 pm

k1llampt


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well i do believe some things like the flood, which is reasonable, but not to that great of a measure, maybe like a few towns or something, definitely not the whole earth, considering if you take all the water in the atmosphere, oceans and below the earth's surface it couldn't span the globe, i believe that god created some sort of 'man' whether it was intelligent or not i can not say, i believe that we did not exist at the same time as dinosaurs though. I do believe in aliens, never seen one, but if you're that ignorant to believe we are the only intelligent life in the entire universe than so be it, my reasoning for the alien topic is that there are millions of lightyears of planets and such out there, so it's easy to think that out of those many planets at least one may have life, but there are many things about the bible i have still not made my mind about yet

78 Re: God or not. on Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:50 pm

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Honestly... Noah's story is the most unlikely of them all. I find it hard to understand that about of everything you have said, everything you believe, and everything you have commented on.... you pick that story as feasible.

Let's put the story in factual terms.....

"God" made it rain, and flooded the earth. He had Noah make a boat to hold his family and 2 of every type of animals. He did this to cleanse the earth and said it would never be done again.

Well, the only people alive that could have written that was Noah or his family... yet they are not the ones who actually recorded it... it was part of scrolls written hundreds of years later. If Noah and his family were the only ones on the ark... that means they were responsible for incestuously populating the earth.... unless they procreated with some of the animals... who knows... maybe we did come from monkeys. Also the every species of animals would have had to come from only one pair of survived parents....

So the part you find real is that it may have rained hard and some cities got flooded? It really seems pointless to even use that as reference at all considering floods happen daily. It's not something you need to "believe in".... thats nature.

EDIT: I have to also comment on this line.... "but if you're that ignorant to believe we are the only intelligent life in the entire universe than so be it".....

Honestly... if you believe that there are aliens, which I agree... How can we be compared to "intelligent life". We are a self-indulgent, destructive, and ignorant species at best.... we are far from "intelligent life".


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

79 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:29 am

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virtuosity wrote:Also about the Dinosaur topic I do believe man & Dinosaurs existed. In the bible I believe it is revelations they talk about us (man) finding unknown species everyday. Well what species is this? In the Area 51 topic there was brought up that they were aliens but come on just as you said you can't exactly prove with just the bible that God does or does not exist. Now that being said what proof do we have of aliens? Non, you can't prove it nor disprove it. BUT if you think about this unknown species and how the bible mentions about "Dragons" well were there really dragons? OR were they actually Dinosaurs? As to many cultures have myths about giant reptiles well this is because they were actually seen. Also read this page:
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dinoscoexist.html

I am sorry but you CANNOT be serious. This is the kind of thing that pisses me off. You can't seriously believe an angelfire website that's so ridiculous it makes me laugh over scientifically proven data and common sense. Seriously, that website claims there's people seeing dinosaurs as recent as 1971!

We find unknown species everyday, that is FACT. That is happening today and it will continue happening tomorrow, that is a statement of amazement at the amount of biodiversity in this planet, it is not, however, proof that prehistoric dinosaurs are living among us. Cultures have myths about giant reptiles because in ancient cultures, they had a meaning. For example, in the Mayan and Aztec cultures Quetzalcoatl (or Kukulcan) (image) was the link between the humans (earth, snake) and the gods (heaven, fly, feathers, wings).

Seriously, don't you think that if people saw them as commonly as they did in the middle ages (relatively recently in Earth's history) as to make stories about them it wouldn't be that much of a secret? Don't you think we would have fossils that date in the same time as humans?

To me, THIS is worst than being ignorant, you disregard all the evidence regarded as fact and choose to believe something that is ridiculous and mind boggling with absolutely no proof.

80 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:47 am

k1llampt


I Just got here!
thats my point, that its not really god that causes most of the things listed in the bible, since after all it is a STORY(FICTION). A large world wide flood is impossible, and like you stated Noah and his family would have had to repopulate the world since they were the 'only' survivors and they did not write it. A swarm of locusts, well since locusts migrate together in large swarms by nature, what makes this any different, this was just an overpopulation of the insects, oh
no! all the plagues were really common ailments and things that have normal explanations, not supernatural beings.

u can call me an atheist or what ever you want, but the fact remains, that 'god' contradicts himself.

The story of adam and eve says that he took adam's bottom rib to in part make eve, and this is why women have one more set of ribs. What is this doing for man? this is explaining, not unlike other myths. When the ancient Greek society found a problem that they could not explain logically, they turned to fabricating myths that could help them understand the subject. The myth of Callisto explains why the constellations Ursa Major and Ursa Minor never set below the horizon. The whole bible is nothing more than a collection of myths. You may say, "but this has the creation mentioned:. Well, so do other societies myths. Rig Veda, Enuma Elish,and the Creation according to Hesiod, they are all the same concept isnt it possible that the bible was created for the same purpose. The same basic concepts are in each mythology. There are 'floods' in each of them, periods when man has its disbelief in god or the gods. Maybe the bible was meant to teach and to explain but some people took it to be true, that 'god' existed. All of these other myths are virtually the same as the bible. And a few were written before the bible came to be. And all of these other stories we now know to be false. So why do we still believe the greatest myth ever written to be true.

81 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:52 am

k1llampt


I Just got here!
in reply to t@d's edited section, lol, we are intelligent life compared to anything we know. Do you consider a parasite to be intelligent? Just because we have impulses and such faults does not mean we are unintelligent, it just means that we are human

82 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:59 am

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k1llampt wrote:in reply to t@d's edited section, lol, we are intelligent life compared to anything we know. Do you consider a parasite to be intelligent? Just because we have impulses and such faults does not mean we are unintelligent, it just means that we are human

You are using us as the top of the scale.... To me, thats ignorant. We can barely leave our atmosphere less alone find anything thus far. We are not intelligent.

I think you are grading on a curve.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

83 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:13 am

k1llampt


I Just got here!
you could say that, we are definitely the most intelligent species in our solar system.... well some of us, and i certainly do not believe that we are the smartest beings in the universe, but this is beside the point considering the topic is over god so i will get back on topic before some people go off on an incoherent rant about absolutely nothing. All i am saying about god is that there are so many things that contradict him/her/it that i find it hard to believe. the many similarities with myths lead me to believe that logically the bible is fiction.

84 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:31 am

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I disagree, there's NOTHING that contradicts the existence of a god. And even if there is, there's always a way to spin it to be "god's will". That's the tricky thing about god, that you'll never be able to prove the contrary of him because of the characteristics that religions have given him. How can I refute something when that something is everything: omnipotent, omnipresent, EVERYTHING.

And that's exactly why I don't believe in its existence.


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85 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:42 pm

Somehow

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ghettoelf wrote:you claim to be athiest i have one question for you
How can you claim something does not exist without its existance to begin with?

first, sorry for quoting someone, but his post were far away from here :p

ghetto has some pretty good argument here. As long as you can think of something, it makes it existing. You could think of a 1 thousand arms dog without having any chances to encounter one anywhere. But still, when you thought of that 1 thousand armed dog, you made is existing through your minds. Therefore, you can't deny god's existance, neither you can affirm God is an actual living thing or anything somewhat beeing something in our reality more than an idea. I've written something that prooved, in my way of thinking, that god were a nonsense, because of it's existance's essence.
God is known to be flawlessness, to be everything, everywhere, to be in each living thing. It's a pretty known fact that all energies have its opposite in the universe. Universe balance, or whatever you call it. If god is everything (which is already far over our thinking skill and understanding), then tell me how could you think of it's opposite ? I mean, something that doesn't even exist on our mind, because it's nothing. And you can't call it nothing. It has no name. It's not even blank. Because blank is something. You can't make such things exist, even in your mind, because non existance is it's living essence. We're admitting that God has no opposite, no contrary force. There is another nonsense. Anything that exists, have an opposite. You can think of God, but that's not enough to make him a beeing. If he was existing, you should be able to think of its opposite.

86 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:30 pm

tool

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Religion is the most controversial subject that will never be fully won in an argument. If you're Atheist, you will throw intelligent remark after intelligent remark at religious people and they will simply twist your words to coincide with the Bible or "God's Divine Plan" and whatnot. Neither side will ever win. You cannot prove or disprove an omnipotent being, just like you can't prove or disprove that there is an infinite amount of energy in the universe, or that ghosts roam the earth. It's all based on imagination, hypotheses, personal philosophies, and the dictation of your philosophies.

I guess since I'm Atheist, I must have no faith or imagination, and my personal philosophies must be wrong, because they don't coincide with God's morals. That's why I don't believe in a God, not because I can't, but because I don't like thinking my life is in the hands of some all-powerful, all-knowing, egomaniac who lets war, famine, disease, destruction, rape, murder, poverty, crime, and corruption plague our world.

"Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man. No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this." - George Carlin, R.I.P.

http://www.myspace.com/kaylaandme

87 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:01 pm

T@D

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Somehow wrote:
ghettoelf wrote:you claim to be athiest i have one question for you
How can you claim something does not exist without its existance to begin with?

first, sorry for quoting someone, but his post were far away from here :p

ghetto has some pretty good argument here. As long as you can think of something, it makes it existing. You could think of a 1 thousand arms dog without having any chances to encounter one anywhere. But still, when you thought of that 1 thousand armed dog, you made is existing through your minds. Therefore, you can't deny god's existance, neither you can affirm God is an actual living thing or anything somewhat beeing something in our reality more than an idea. I've written something that prooved, in my way of thinking, that god were a nonsense, because of it's existance's essence.
God is known to be flawlessness, to be everything, everywhere, to be in each living thing. It's a pretty known fact that all energies have its opposite in the universe. Universe balance, or whatever you call it. If god is everything (which is already far over our thinking skill and understanding), then tell me how could you think of it's opposite ? I mean, something that doesn't even exist on our mind, because it's nothing. And you can't call it nothing. It has no name. It's not even blank. Because blank is something. You can't make such things exist, even in your mind, because non existance is it's living essence. We're admitting that God has no opposite, no contrary force. There is another nonsense. Anything that exists, have an opposite. You can think of God, but that's not enough to make him a beeing. If he was existing, you should be able to think of its opposite.

Please take no offense Ant, as I mean my comments to be in regards to your post... not you as a person.


That post has to be one of the most ridicules, insane, non-thought filled posts I can remember ever seeing. Ghetto did not have a good point and your reasons/thought on it makes even less sense. Someone claiming they do not believe there is a God has nothing to do with anything said. I'll use your example......a one thousand leg dog. You claim it exists because someone "thought" about a possibility that it could exist? That's not proof of anything nor even a coherent thought. And now what if I say that since you thought this dog into "existence" that I don't believe it is real.... so Im wrong? People that do not believe there is a god are not the same people who "invented" it. They are saying what they believe about something that was brought to them...... they are not coming up with a "god" in their mind and then saying he's not real.

This is what always seems to happen in this type of discussions. People who do not believe simply state their reasons, argue some points that they think are incorrect, and overall disagree with the whole "faith" thing.... because let's be really honest. Faith is the ONLY thing that divides someone that believes and someone who doesn't. It's that simple... except the believers always seem to come up with completely ignorant "proofs" or "ideas" to convert someone. I never understood using the bible as a fact, believing that faith in god means you are somehow more informed, or using strictly "faith" as your proof of anything.


To be completely honest..... I think there is more chance of a 1k leg dog then a "god".



Last edited by T@D on Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

88 Re: God or not. on Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:28 pm

Pornfish

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Actually what Ant said makes some sense. If we're debating the existence of god, technically god does exist.

What I think Ant meant is that since people believe there's a god, and those beliefs have affected the real world, the phenomenon of god is real. This does not mean that god, as a being, exists; but it does mean that god is a real thing, that has influenced the physical world in many ways, and thus, it's existence is real.

I disagree about the 1 legged flying dog or whatever because unless that thought translates into reality, into the physical world, and the consequences are palpable like when talking about god, it does not exist.

Remember, the god phenomenon has raised and destroyed many civilizations, lives, temples, beliefs, ways of life... if it didn't exist, it couldn't affect the physical world. Since it does affect it, it does exist, just not as a supreme being.

What I'm saying is that Ant is correct, it's just not the point this discussion was trying to make.

89 Re: God or not. on Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:07 pm

Somehow

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Well. Just an example. Can you touch an idea ? Can you see it ? Smell it ? Is it physically existing ? No. But, when you have an idea, it exists. As a non physical thing. It's the same with my 1 thousand legged dog. It exists as an idea, not as a physical matter.

Still thinking my post was dumb ?

90 Re: God or not. on Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:10 pm

Somehow

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damn, edit button left home.. I don't believe in god. What I said prooves that God is a nonsense. Read it again, and ask me if some points aren't clear.

91 Re: God or not. on Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:58 pm

Virtuosity

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So if you don't believe in God then you don't believe in the Devil or Demonic people?

92 Re: God or not. on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:03 am

Pornfish

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That would be correct.


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93 Re: God or not. on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:20 am

Virtuosity

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This goes as well as Ghosts and such?

94 Re: God or not. on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:28 am

tool

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tool wrote:Religion is the most controversial subject that will never be fully won in an argument. If you're Atheist, you will throw intelligent remark after intelligent remark at religious people and they will simply twist your words to coincide with the Bible or "God's Divine Plan" and whatnot. Neither side will ever win. You cannot prove or disprove an omnipotent being, just like you can't prove or disprove that there is an infinite amount of energy in the universe, or that ghosts roam the earth. It's all based on imagination, hypotheses, personal philosophies, and the dictation of your philosophies.

I guess since I'm Atheist, I must have no faith or imagination, and my personal philosophies must be wrong, because they don't coincide with God's morals. That's why I don't believe in a God, not because I can't, but because I don't like thinking my life is in the hands of some all-powerful, all-knowing, egomaniac who lets war, famine, disease, destruction, rape, murder, poverty, crime, and corruption plague our world.

"Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man. No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this." - George Carlin, R.I.P.

http://www.myspace.com/kaylaandme

95 Re: God or not. on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:24 am

Somehow

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IMO, devil has its existence as an idea, because it isn't even hard to think of something that is filled only by pain and hatred. Its opposite should be something angelic, something filled with pleasure and forgiveness / love. Actually, if you think of something, you make it existing through yourself, as an idea.
Like I said, I believe that something need to have an opposite to be fully existing, even as an idea. It's a common matter in physic sciences, the universe is balanced. I'm not repeating it all over, just, if god is everything, then you can't think of an opposite, because thinking of nothing is (impossible, but let's assume it is possible) already making it something, it's already making it an idea.

96 Re: God or not. on Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:13 am

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I did a little research on some things I found interesting...

In historical documents I found a story about a man. He was born to a virgin. His birthday is believed to be or celebrated on December 25th. His birth was announced by a bright star. Tht day three kings visited him and brought him gifts. A ruler in the area heard about the son of god being born and had housands of kids killed... But he got away.

He also lacked his life being recorded from 12 to 30. At 30 he was baptized by a man who was later beheaded for his beliefs. He healed the blind, cast out demons, and raised a man from the dead named lazerus. He has a famous teaching on the mount. He was later crusified and three days layer rose from the dead an promised to return to save the earth. He also is recorded as having 12 diciples.

No, his name was not Jesus. His name was Horus and his story was recorded in the book of the dead 1300 years BC. 1300 years before Jesus was born.... Horus had the exact same life.

Horus, his father, and his mother are still to this day the first recorded trinity worshped.... By the Egyptians.

Seems kinda fishy to me.

There's also many other "gods" who hare very similar stories.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

97 Re: God or not. on Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:43 pm

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Maybe Horus is made up by the devil orrr was a test from god?

Either way like porny said, there is no really "proof" against god. Because every evidences can be spun around to support it.

98 Re: God or not. on Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:25 pm

Pornfish

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Tad, you should watch the first part of the first Zeitgeist movie... it's basically talking about that.

Their explanation is that people are not actually worshipping Jesus... etc. but the Sun. Supposedly the whole life of Jesus and the other deities with the same story is in fact a metaphorical representation of the cycle the sun makes in a year (you'll have to watch is you want a better explanation). I think this is a sensible and rational theory, because if you think about it, the sun has provided so much for humanity that it makes sense for people to historically worship it (brings warmth, makes crops grow, protects from the dangers of night... etc.) It's just human nature to believe that the sun is a good thing, while night is "bad".


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99 Re: God or not. on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:53 pm

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I was actually told about Zeitgeist. And was told to watch it. I heard a ton about similar stories and agree completely. Krishna is another. Less similarities then Horus, but still a ton

I actually read the book of the dead related to the Horus myth. I was prompted by the documentry "religilous". It's something everyone should watch. It got me looking up alot and really being able to look past thoughts and feelings and focus on facts.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

100 Re: God or not. on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:55 pm

T@D

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By the way.. After researching what I have and seeing what I have read...

I am officially an athiest. Agnostics are too lazy and still entertain there may or may not be a god. There's no way in my mind one has or will exist.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

101 Re: God or not. on Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:11 am

h3av3n

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GOD!!!!!

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