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1 More petty bitching. on Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:40 pm

T@D

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I support everyones right to what they believe. Freedom of religion. Freedom of sexual orientation. Freedom from racial bias. Basic freedoms this country was based on. Granted it has taken quite a bit of work to bring those freedoms to life in a lot of ways, but I think the progress is evident. There are groups that support pretty much every way of life, every religious faction, and every race. I think, at times, it is important for those groups to stand up and speak out if they feel some sort of injustice for their particular cause. This is not one of them....

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=13415709

The GLAAD (The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) is all up-in-arms about a comment that was made in Ron Howard's new movie The Dilemma.

In the movie, Vince Vaughn's character uses the line "Ladies and gentleman, electric cars are gay.".... and teh GLADD people went ape shit. They "demanded" the line be pulled from the trailer... and it was. Then they demanded it be removed from the movie. What? Now a group, not directly connected to the entertainment business at all, can demand what the rest of us are allowed to watch?

GLAAD president Jarrett Barrios responded to Vaughn's comments with the following statement: "Jokes can bring people together, but they can also push us apart. When 'gay' is used as a pejorative, it frequently sends a message — particularly to youth and their bullies — that being gay is wrong and something to laugh at. We invite Vince Vaughn to work with us and help ensure that gay youth and those perceived to be gay aren't put in harm's way by such jokes."


Again, she actually said...

When 'gay' is used as a pejorative, it frequently sends a message — particularly to youth and their bullies — that being gay is wrong and something to laugh at.

Are you fucking kidding me? You are really going to try and preach to the world that the line used in the movie was somehow directed to send a message to the "bullies" so they would beat the shit out of or harass gay kids? Come on... that's gay.

Movies, everyone should understand by now, are an escape.... not a realistic depiction of how we should live our lives. You have to be a complete moron to believe that 1 line in a movie is going to effect anyones actions towards someone... ever. At all.

I can understand the use of "faggot" in a derogitory way. That falls along the same lines as a racist statement. If the movie said "kill all faggots", "hate homosexuals" or even "gay people are stupid"..... I get it. But still.... IT'S A MOVIE. However, maybe they would have a leg to stand on. That would be specifically aimed.

The word gay was originally used to refer to someone who was happy. "I am gay" meant you were happy.... not apart of same sex love of some sort. That word wasn't massly linked to homosexuals except for the past 80 years or so, and still even then... the real definition of the word is happy or carefree.

Now the word, as an alternative, means "dumb" or stupid". Claims that this is a derogatory word towards a specific group is ridiculous. Some still see the word meaning happy, some see it as referring to homosexuality, some seem it as meaning "dumb". Well who's right? Just because someone uses the word gay does not mean, in any way, that they are on some sort of hatred trail against homosexuals.

Heres what Chris Moyles of the BBC had to say.

"The word ‘gay’, in addition to being used to mean ‘homosexual’ or ‘carefree’, was often now used to mean ‘lame’ or ‘rubbish’. This is a widespread current usage of the word amongst young people... The word 'gay' ... need not be offensive... or homophobic ... The governors said, however, that Moyles was simply keeping up with developments in English usage. ... The committee... was "familiar with hearing this word in this context." The governors believed that in describing a ring tone as 'gay', the DJ was conveying that he thought it was 'rubbish', rather than 'homosexual'. ... The panel acknowledged however that this use... in a derogatory sense... could cause offence in some listeners, and counselled caution on its use.



You want people to stop being bigots towards homosexuals? Me to.... but this is complete bullshit. Attacking a movie production company for the non-derogatory use of the word "gay" only fuels the fire for the people that are actually against the "gay lifestyle". Quit bitching about the small bullshit and show you are actually doing something to prevent hate crimes... other then asking people to wear purple 1 day a year.


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2 Re: More petty bitching. on Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:01 pm

Pornfish

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I disagree. Language evolves and with it the definitions; and let's face it, although the word can be used formally to mean happy, it's primary meaning right now is to describe a person who is attracted to the same sex. We can't argue that.

We also can't argue that when used in the pejorative sense, it's an evolution that came from the homosexual culture being viewed as weaker or non-manly. That is why it used to say, for example, electric cars are weaker cars and not used to say that banging supermodels is a sign of weakness. It's an disambiguation derived from the negative view that society has on homosexuals; and it shouldn't be.

It's inappropriate to say that electric cars are for blacks if we meant to say that they are for weak people. It should not be any different for gays.

Granted, I use the word like that and probably most of us do, and it's a thing that has become part of the culture, but it doesn't make it any less wrong. It's like when in the old times people would use the word Nigga neutrally, but it evolved to mean something pejorative, so we don't use it anymore. It's same thing just backwards. The word gay shouldn't evolve to mean something bad, and this is what they are defending. You can't blame them, as it is a personal issue to them.


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3 Re: More petty bitching. on Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:08 pm

T@D

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In my opinion, yes and no. I understand what you are saying, but I think you aren't looking at things from all sides.

ANY word, no matter what, used in the pejorative sense would be defamatory to some or all. That's the whole point of using words in that context. But to say that the use of the word gay, in that line from the movie, in any way as connected to the homosexual lifestyle, is ludicrous.

Let's compare the two properly. The "N" word has, in society, became a term used to be derogatory to people of a specific race. But, the word came from the latin niger, meaning black. I can agree that is may be considered more contemporary that the word has taken on a pejorative style since that is how most have used it in the past 100 or so years... but it has always meant black. It was not a derogatory word in the past. Society as deemed it that way on their own accord. It wasn't until recent years that the word has taken on more of a defamatory meaning and thus deemed inappropriate. But for all extents and purposes, it describes a color. More so it was used to describe a skin color. The way society is today, you can't walk up to someone who is black and ask "are you a Nigga?" Even though the word, realistically, is not meant to be a racist remark.

The word "gay" was not intended to mean homosexuals. It was never meant to be a derogatory term. The fact of homosexuals allowing the word to be accepted to explain them was a choice. You can use the word gay and no one even bat an eye. "are you gay?" would be an acceptable question. I understand that the question above and this one are a bit difference since you can tell if someone is black visually and not always if they are gay visually.... but I think you understand what I mean. You can ask someone if they are black, or gay, or hell... even both and neither word will succumb to bigotry accusations. Granted, thats a generalist statement.

The word gay has evolved from meaning happy to meaning homosexual. Now it seems it is changing also to mean "stupid" or dumb". I never saw the word as meaning "weak" as you stated, although I suppose to each their own when it comes to the definition. But in either way, I still don't see how the use of the word in the context of the movie some how promotes bullying of homosexual people. Anyone who would treat homosexuals different because they heard in a movie that "something is gay" are people that have already deep rooted hatred towards them to begin with.

They are going after something that is not even close to a pinochle situation in their movement to rid the world of homosexual myths and hate crimes. They, as most factions seem to do, are looking for publicity on a matter that holds no water. They believe that fighting against, even the minor occurrences, somehow makes their voice louder.

Homosexual organizations:
GLBT/LBGT - (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender)
GMHC - (Gay Men's Health Crisis)
GLAAD - (The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation)
To name a few.

Black people's organizations:
Sorry, couldn't find one with the word "Nigga" in it.


You want to fight against hate? I'll do what I can to help. You want to bring up ridiculous arguments with ridiculous reasonings.... fuck off.


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"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
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4 Re: More petty bitching. on Thu May 19, 2011 1:56 am

T@D

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HAd a convo with a gay friend of mine regarding this. He's a great guy, we just disagree on this point.

He started by posting a video:
http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2011/05/watch-nba-star-grant-hill-on-recording-psa-against-homophobia.html

Then our convo:

(Me is me, the other lines are him.)

Me: Then why did someone change the word to mean homosexual?
You are missing the point on that. The word was not "invented" to mean homosexual.
It was written in biblical times....


what the word was invented to mean does not change that the negativity now associated with it is a result of the negativity associated with me


Me: I think you are taking it too personal though. Although I understand in a way.... if I say my car is gay, it is no direct or even indirect term I am using about gay people
If directed at a person, in a bigoted manor, I do agree.


if homosexuals were not viewd negatively the word would not have a negative conotation


Me: I dont view homosexuals negatively..... yes I have used the word gay to mean other things then homosexuality.
I honestly would march on washington to make gay marriage the only type of marriage allowed


the only type?


Me: I have always fought to gay rights, done many small protests, and helped spread the anti-hate word
ya, take marriage from hedro couples for a while and see how they like being told what they can and cant do by their government


i do not question your being an ally of gay peoplenor do I question your sincerity when you say you don't mean homosexuals when you use the word, but I do not beleive you can use the word to express negativity without validating societies negative view of homosexuals whether it is the intent or not


Me: But that's unfair to me. Me saying the word gay is not intended to validate anything. If it does it is the biproduct of idiots whos agenda is hatred to begin with. That's like me reading the word Nigga in an old civil war book, and then some skin head clapping
I can control what I say, and I can control the context I use it in. If someone takes what I say and changes my meanings to their meanings..... I can't be heald accountable for that


but using it to say something is bad is an acceptance of what society says about us
if I chose to say something was Jeff, if I hated it, whether I was thinking of you or intended to insult you would be secondary to my accepting that the word that is your name is associated with bad


Me: Im not society though. I can't speak for them and what they think. Just like I hate the N word, but I hear it in music all the time and on TV..
Well, thats how it works really. Context and intent. I can understand you being bothered, Im just saying it's a case by case. The term, if you hear od it "Your name is mud" or "along those lines was actually made from Dr. Mudd who treated Booth after he killed Lincoln. Hi was a disgrace, so the term "mudd" became a connect to a failure, or fool.


__________________________________________________________________________________________




"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.... Faith is the denial of observation so that beliefs can be preserved."


*{CHS}* Putch: im bringing sexxy back
*pWp*T@D*: I brought it back. But you are more then welcomed to fluff it.

<-H$*SoStoned / Pillies -: whos your quake fun person of the year taddie bear?!?!??!
*pWp*T@D*: me... dipshit.
*pWp*T@D*: Im the fun
.
http://www.pwpclan.org

5 Re: More petty bitching. on Thu May 19, 2011 10:06 am

Merky

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Im here fairly often!
Gay used to mean happy...


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6 Re: More petty bitching. on Thu May 19, 2011 2:58 pm

nodata

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There's a line in the Flintstones' theme song that used it for that meaning, Merky. "...and have a gay old time!" Only part of it I truly remember is at the end of the song, but that's beside the point.

Now, onto the original topic...

I personally believe saying using "gay" to mean something as "dumb," "lame," "rubbish," etc. will cause a negative reaction toward gays/lesbians/bisexuals will be the cause of that happening.

I have a gay friend, a lesbian friend, and a bunch of bisexual friends. EVERY SINGLE one of them uses the term "gay" in the same sense I do, to mean something as "stupid." I rarely use the term "gay" to mean homosexual, I usually say homosexual when referring to that. I've even used the term "gay" to mean "stupid" around each and every one of my friends, homosexual or not, and none of them cared since they knew how I meant it.

Taking something meant 1 way and trying to turn it around against who said it saying they meant it another way, will cause others to believe that and then start the "hate" against themselves over their own stupidity. "One often meets his destiny on the path he chooses to avoid it." That's basically what's happening, they're digging their own grave in a sense.


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